“Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Worship Band Builder podcast, where we are working with you to lay the foundation for skillful worship! I’m Eric Roberts. I’m joined by my co-host, Emily Roberts.”
The list we are reading from today we got from a social media post by http://www.joelbrown.co.uk/
Ten Tips for Worship Leaders - Part 2 (Tips 7-10)
In Episode 16 we covered Tips 1-6
7) Sing the Psalms and the great prayers of the scriptures regularly in times of personal devotion.
8) The depth of your worship on the public stage is a billboard of where you are in the secret place.
9) Character is developed in obscurity and tested in the limelight. Don't be too hasty to get on a big stage when your character isn't ready to sustain you there.
10) Don't be tempted to idolize the sound of worship of your house, church or generation. God is multi-generational and transcends cultural aesthetics. Love your sound but don't worship it.
“Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Worship Band Builder podcast, where we are working with you to lay the foundation for skillful worship! I’m Eric Roberts. I’m joined by my co-host, Emily Roberts.”
The list we are reading from today we got from a social media post by http://www.joelbrown.co.uk/
Ten Tips for Worship Leaders - Part 2 (Tips 7-10)
In Episode 16 we covered Tips 1-6
7) Sing the Psalms and the great prayers of the scriptures regularly in times of personal devotion.
8) The depth of your worship on the public stage is a billboard of where you are in the secret place.
9) Character is developed in obscurity and tested in the limelight. Don't be too hasty to get on a big stage when your character isn't ready to sustain you there.
10) Don't be tempted to idolize the sound of worship of your house, church or generation. God is multi-generational and transcends cultural aesthetics. Love your sound but don't worship it.
[inaudible]
Eric:hello and welcome to this episode of the worship band builder podcast, where we are working with you to lay the foundation for skillful worship. I'm Eric Roberts and I'm joined by my cohost, Emily Roberts.
Emily:And we are back for part two of worship leader tip.
Eric:Yeah, there were 10 tips and this one is it's really like part two, but it's sort of lopsided, cause this is seven, eight, nine and 10. So this is four of the tips we're in part one. So are we, we are lopsided. That's where we got, this was a I'll just give them a shout out. Joel brown.co.uk. You can find his link in the description. I don't even know. I didn't even talk to him. I just found this on the internet and I was like, you know what? That's pretty good. Let's do this. And like, we didn't part one. We did not read these ahead of time. I read these, you know, months ago, but we have not read them recently who were going to read them, talk about them, throwing our little advice. But I think that this Joel Brown is like a medical doctor. I think he's some kind of like doctor I found on his website, he's got like a, a, it was like some sort of really serious stuff about that. So
Emily:whatever his day job is, he is pretty insightful about worship.
Eric:Yeah. So he must be also a worship leader, producer, all that stuff. I read about him. All right. Number seven, sing the songs and the great prayers of the scriptures regularly in times of personal devotion.
Emily:Oh, well I think that is yours. That's number seven is yours because that's something that you have done, but I think that's where you started. Isn't it? When you first got saved didn't you spend quite a bit of time studying the Psalms.
Eric:Yeah, I think the Psalms, like I would read'em I would read the Psalms every month and I have this, uh, I was at this worship conference, Marty Nystrom, who wrote as the deer. And I was like pretty young, maybe like 19. My, my small church sent me and I was like, Oh my gosh, it's Marty Nystrom. He wrote us a deer. I was just, you know, I was like star struck by these. It's weird because nobody else knows these people really. And I'd be like, you know, telling people like I met this morning. I'm like, who? Like what? Nope. Nobody knows that guy. Um, except worship guys. So anyway, he gave this thing about reading the Psalms every month and it was like one through like, so it's kinda complicated. I'll put it in this show if you want to do it. But you basically read five Psalms a day and over 30 days you've got through the whole book. Right? If you say so, I would do it every, every, every month. And yeah, you read one, you skipped five. Okay. So you go like you read someone and then you skip five. So you read someone Psalm six, Psalm 11, Psalm 16, you skip five. And then when you get to the end in a week, you go back and you start on two and then you skip five. So you read two and then seven and then 12.
Emily:Yeah. You better add some notes about that. That sounds very
Eric:it's complicated, but guys, look, you can do it. You just, you just go back and you just skip five.
Emily:So what's the significance of that? Why, why five was,
Eric:I don't think there's any, any significance other than did doing it like that helped it not be, so I don't say boring, but not. So like yeah. It kind of, you know, cause some of those songs are like some of the Bible's like specifically in order. So like when you skipped around, it just sort of gave it more variety for like a daily reading plan. I don't know. Cause if you read Psalm one, one 49 or one 50, you know, it's all like they're short praise, the Lord and all this, he reads in the middle it's different stuff. So as you're skipping through, I think it just gave a little more like it was a better daily thing than just going one, two, three, four, five, six. You know what I mean? So anyway, I did that all the time and that's where I wrote a lot of songs. You can sing the songs, you can do that stuff. Yeah. I think that as a worship leader, a young worship leader, that was, that was my, um, that was really important. I should do it again. Cause now I'm old and fuddy. I'm an old fuddy duddy. I don't, I don't leave the Psalms anymore. Like I used to, I haven't done that in a long time. I should. Number eight. The depth of your worship on the public stage is a billboard of where you are in the secret place. Oh my, yeah. I kind of disagree with that one in a way, but that's just because I've been on, I've been the billboard. I've seen it both ways. I think that's a decent concept, but I think it's also, um, not necessarily true. I don't know.
Emily:Well, I guess that gets into kind of a muddy area because when you are leading worship, you are giving a service to the Lord and to your church and it does not necessarily look like how you would worship in your personal time when you are not responsible for, uh, encouraging anybody else to join in. Um, so I think that's what you are trying to say. And I think maybe what he is saying is that, um, you know, it's like practicing before the game. If you don't practice, then you're not prepared when you have to perform. Right.
Eric:I think that, like I said, I agree with this maybe on an overall scope, but I've noticed in my life if, and this'll be a little more technical, personal technical, technically personally it technical and personal. Let's say I have a really bad week. Let's say I don't read my Bible at all. I'm just being a jerk to everybody, you know? And that's, um, I'm just exaggerating, um, like arguing in staff meetings, whatever, you know, and being a real jerk. And then I get on stage and I sing and that's the Sunday that everybody just worships, they come up to you and they go, like, it was amazing. That felt, you know, I felt God move. So I think that it's very dangerous for us to think that our personal, like we're earning up these personal worship points that it's going to be this big thing. Like I, I I've seen us to speak to people's hearts. Yeah. So, I mean, okay, so I don't disagree with this, that overall in your life, if you're not worshiping like in your personal life, then onstage it's it's can be awkward and it might not get, might not be like this. But I, I don't think that I've just noticed in my life some of the times when I've been far away from God or I've been feeling far away, then I go and I lead worship and everybody like just, it's the best worship service they've had and I'm like six months. So I tried not to connect that to, I'm going to make this happen and I'm going to make this worship. This is going to be so worshipful because I've been so worshiping. I don't know. Like I said, it's personal and technical because I do think that this is the statement over on its face. Maybe just like, if you just look at it overall, your yeah, you got gotta be worshiping. And, but I don't think that we can really measure the worship based on what we do. And then when we go up and do something, when it's really good, we can't be like, Oh, well that was cause I was like praying all week. Cause I know people like that, people like I'm in, I'm in praying so much this week and I've been worshiping, I'm going to go up on stage and man, it's going to be like, God's going to just, it's just going to be like, Holy ghost time. I know, I know people like that. And I don't believe that any of that. Yeah. That's why I think it's just dangerous to think that, but I do think that we should be in the secret worshiping and I do think it does play a part on our overall, like maybe in the global ness of our ministry, but not necessarily in just like a great worship service. And it was because we were just so connected. Does that make sense? I think so number nine, this is another one that we can be technical on. Characters developed in obscurity and it's tested in the limelight. Don't be too hasty to get on a big stage when your character isn't ready to sustain you there. This is some more theology and some thought processes that I think, um, it's similar to number eight. I think that character is definitely developed an obscurity that we had, our character is internal and that, you know, it's like, we're going to do the right thing when people aren't looking right or we're supposed to, and then we'll do, you know, but I think, um, don't be too hasty to going on a big stage when your character isn't ready to sustain you. I think that's a little, um, I think that getting on a big stage at any time you get on a stage, whether it's a big stage or a little stage, anytime, you know, you just have to, I think generally what he's saying is probably right. I think the wording of it is a little bit weird to me. I think you just better be living right in general, whether you're on stage, a big stage, a little stage, any stage you stand up in front of people, if it's in a small group worship, or if it's on a big stage, you know, quote, a big stage, are you, are you living right? Because God will, God will bring everything to light, but he might not in, in this scenario. I mean, you might be a total phony leading worship for 10 years and nobody might know, they might think this guy's awesome. And you could just be a total phony.
Emily:Well, maybe nobody else knows, but you know, and God knows. And I think maybe he is alluding to the fact that being on a stage is a test of your character because people will come up to you after service and say, Oh, that was so good. And you can kind of start internalizing that and, um, taking pride in your performance and maybe I'm feeling a little bit famous putting on a little bit of rock star, uh, when we really need to be serving with humility. Um, so it can, even if it's not a detriment to your congregation, even if they are not aware of what's going on with you inside, um, it can really be hard on you and your relationship with God. Um, if it's more important to you that you look cool on stage than if God is receiving the glory.
Eric:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think, I think everything you said is right on, um, I just think as being on stage so much, eight and nine to me are a little, the muddy, the waters are muddy, you know, because, um, I think worship leaders and pastors, all, we all kind of feel like we're on this stage. We have to be perfect. We have to be, we've prayed for 20 hours this week. We're this is going to be a move of God. And I kind of think that that's a flawed thought process. Um, I also think that yes, you should be praying and you should be right. But I also think that God has put you there and he'll also remove you. So if your character is wrong or if you think it's about you, you, I'm pretty sure you'll be gone. You know, it may, it may take it sake some time. But I think these, these in theory are right, I think, on, on their face. But then I don't, I hope that we're not, you know, kind of developing these things because that's what the ministry requires. Um, we're, we're not going to be perfect and worship leaders need, I mean, need to know that the first, the first several years of my worship leading ministry, I mostly just cried on the stage. I think I did. I mean like you were there, right? I mean, I mostly just was weeping and singing and crying and singing and I was, it was, I would not like that now, but when I was younger, I was like, it was so new to me. And I was so like, I realized so much, like I've never should be here. I shouldn't be standing here. I shouldn't be leading worship. Everything was so real to me. So I just spent most of the first couple of years of my worship ministry, just like that really wish I could get back to that, but it's not as popular now in church, I was a different era.
Emily:I would be interested to know when we started calling that platform upfront the stage, because I know when I was a kid that was not, I think people would have, um, really balked at calling that a stage.
Eric:Yeah. I mean, in the beginning it was, um, now it's much more performance driven, at least in the places that I've been in the last years. Um, there's still worship, but it's very, you know, in the beginning, I mean, we were at Bellwood community, you know, I would just like stop a song and be praying and be crying. And people were like, it was a different, a different vibe of church that we've been in now. And, um, there might be churches out
Emily:there. Wasn't a time clock on church. It's a, we'll get you in and out. It's almost like fast food. We, you know, we'll wrap up our, our spiritual gathering in an hour or less.
Eric:Yeah. And that shows in the worship and that, that, that gets us into problems. And so I'm just glad that I had that, that moment in my younger days, let's do number 10. We could talk about this a lot. Don't be tempted to idolize the sound of worship of your house church or generation. God is multigenerational and transcends cultural, aesthetics. Love your sound, but don't worship it. I think that's, yeah. I think that kind of goes into what we're doing now. We've set up a stage, we've set up a time clock, we've set up a program, we've set up some lights and some fog and made it very worldly looking, you know, like it hated her like that. I'm saying that, that, that is us following along to the production style of the, of the world, which is fine. We don't have currently have fog in our church, but we have lights. We have all that stuff. Just no fog yet. Um, but we've sort of followed along with that. And we've made this a thing where don't be tempted to idolize the sound of your house or your generation. Um, it, it is, it is cool that he said that multi church, God is multigenerational in transcends culture aesthetics. So he transcends time limits of worship. He transcends stages. He transcends, uh, lights and fog and elevations top 10. He transcends all of that, but that's sort of where the church is. And that's a very general statement, but that's where a lot of the churches that we are hanging around are they're in that mode of almost like that production mode. And God's, God's like, yeah, whatever. I really do think God's probably like, yeah, whatever. That's cool. That's cool for you guys for now because like in 10 years it's going to be different. Right.
Emily:I don't know. I'm just still struggling to imagine God saying yeah. Okay. Whatever. That's cool.
Eric:Really like saying yeah. Whatever. Like, like in the nineties, when we started going, let's do guitar and let's Darrell Evans was out and like when let's have this, you know, the, the, the, whatever, the Hosanna movement and all that God was like, yeah, whatever. That's cool. Your guitars are cool. If you want him back in the Jesus days when they started trying to get guitars and, you know, get the drums on stage and people get upset and God, God doesn't care. I don't think about any of that stuff. Actually think he cares more about the heart of why we're doing that. I think he cares more about the unity of the church. And he cares about some of those things, like the quiet place, the Psalms, he cares about those things. Yes. I think he he's right here. Joel is right on right. It says name Joel. Joel's right on transcends cultural aesthetics. And I think that's man, that's a good, that's a good thought because all of this stuff that we're doing, getting all hung up on is not even really worship. You know, it's what we're kind of making it.
Emily:It it's sort of the cosmetics.
Eric:Yeah. So makeup, it's a worship makeup. That's the new book coming out. The worship makeup. No, I'm just kidding. Somebody else. Write that one. It's a good title, man. The, make the worship makeup and have some like little mascara there. I don't know anything about, well, I do wear makeup sometimes, but that's another story. Oh boy. For video shoots that we're making, I'm not wearing makeup today. I'm not wearing makeup today. People, I didn't do it today. So maybe I'll do it next time for you. Any last words, Emily?
Emily:Um, no, I don't. I mean, we could go into the worship Wars and, and
Eric:yeah, let's do that. We got about two minutes left. Can we cover it two minutes?
Emily:I'm just saying that this number 10 feels like it's sort of directed at the, um, animosity that we have had in the church in the past about, are we doing hymns? Are we doing courses? Are we doing contemporary worship songs? Can we have drums on the stage? Or do we keep the organ? And, and all of those things that have caused major arguments between people, uh, when it just needs to be about worshiping God. Um, and all of, all of that kind of needs to be set aside.
Eric:I'm with you. I'm, I'm aiming to that. All right. So basically we are on a new format. I don't think I like this format. I'll watch it. I'll edit this. And I don't think I like this cause I like, yes, we're facing forward. If you're on our YouTube channel, make sure if you're listening on Spotify or iTunes, you can actually watch us, which is awesome on YouTube. It's awesome. It's amazing because you can see my makeup, see my hair and my lights. You can see my hair. I'm doing my hair differently now. Uh, so you can watch this, but I like it when we're facing each other, because I just feel like I keep wanting to turn and look at you, but that seems awkward. So you must have the time that well that's because I'm so handsome. It's because you're talking and I look at people when they're tired. Yeah. So I think we're going to flip the table around for the next episode and do it straight on, but let us know. Why, what do you think? You think this, this is like, this is like the average YouTube set up where they're just staring at the TV camera that we're looking there and it's nice. I mean, you look nice. You get this, I like this color on you. I do like the color on you, but I don't, I don't like, um, you know, I don't like this. Not being able to look at you. I think we're having a very good conversation and I like to look at you. So that's good. Cause I'm married to you. I gotta look at you. That's right. All right. So go to worship band, boulder.com. Leave a comment there. Let us know if you like what format you like, and maybe we'll do something even crazier, but the beeper is about to beep so go to worship van builder.com/podcast, and also check out all the free webinars there. And if you want training for your church or one on one coaching, which we're actually starting to offer one on one coaching just with me and you on a zoom, go to worship band, builder.com. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1:Hi,[inaudible].